Friday, February 24, 2012

Solidarity with Save Malaysia & Anti-Lynas



This Federal Government claimed that it is willing to listen to the people. But listening cannot be a selective work. In the case of Lynas, the people have spoken and they would like a project with such huge risk and low benefit to the people to ship out of the country. 


The Bukit Merah tragedy is still fresh in our mind. It is unbecoming and unfathomable why the government would like to court another tragedy in the making with Lynas. Moreover, the producer has been given generous tax haven. Even if Lynas is willing to contribute 10% of its profit to the people of Pahang, it should still be rejected.


How many times we have seen or heard promises and guarantees from the industrialists and businesses which ended up as smoke screens? 


The way the government welcomes and fought for the Lynas plant to be operational in Gebeng is a monumental shame to our inability to attract better quality investment.


If the present crop cannot do the job to sell Malaysia to the foreign investors and bring in value added and beneficial technology and knowledge into the country, perhaps someone else should be entrusted to the job.


I shall march with the people of Anti-Lynas and Save Malaysia this Sunday in Penang. Would have been in Kuantan if my health permits.

37 comments:

TOKZ said...

Pls. kindly find below an rare insight of LILIAN TOH & JOEY YEAP towards the outlook of MALAYSIA in 20 years time:

1) They both foresee a mass exodus of Chinese flocking & fleeing back to their original homeland called China.

2) They both foresee Lim Guan Eng converting to a Muslim & changing his name to Abdullah Lim. However, they both couldn't foresee Lim Kit Siang as they both believe Kit Siang would have long 'kaput' by then.

3) They both foresee & agreed the Chinese who chose to remained in Malaysia by then are a group of 'useless' Chinese who would rather abandon their own original race by willingly being dominated by PAS its' pathetic rules.

4) They both foresee there will be NO modern judiciary system in Malaysia. The only type of judiciary system in Malaysia by then would be the 'Hudud Law'.

5) They both foresee there will only be 1 religion in Malaysia & you know what I mean.

6) The both foresee the Malaysian ROCKET (DAP) being conquered by the Malaysian MOON (PAS) although in science & technology, it's the rocket that actually conquer the Moon.

7) They both ironically foresee the only place one can see a CHOPSTICK would be in the Muzium Negara as PAS will be banning chopsticks under their rule. Pas would say makan guna tangan!

8) They both foresee the calendars Malaysians would be referring to will be the Islamic calendars. There would be no more such thing as January, February of even December in Malaysia by then.

9) They both foresee one would have to cross border to either Singapore or Thailand just to celebrate Christmas, Chinese New Year, Deepavali & so on.

10) They both foresee the national costume of Malaysia by then would be a 'Osama bin Laden' look alike.

They both concluded it's IMPORTANT for Malaysian Chinese to determine is this the type of future the Malaysian Chinese desire should they vote for either DAP or PAS.

Why NOT vote for DAP when DAP isn't an Islamic party? Because DAP is just a TOOL for PAS to be make use of towards PAS agenda to rule the country.

Dear my fellow CHINESE brothers/sisters....the choice is yours!!!

Anonymous said...

tokz, i dont know what kind of shit hole fortune telling you're trying to say here but 2 things i do agree with you here is that it's indeed true DAP is being used by PAS to pursue their dream, while, the malaysian chinese would suffer should PAS come into power. i cannot foresee PKR being the dominant one as PKR is still young & weak with many internal fightings among their members, while, DAP is near impossible as it's a chinese based party. PAS would take every opportunity to grab this chance to be in power. imagine PAS is not in power now but they are already trying to impose ridiculous islamic rules & law upon us. You can be sure more nonsense will follow should they come into power.

Anonymous said...

YOU ARE A LOAD OF CRAP TOKZ. RUBBISH IS ALL YOU KNOW HOW TO TALK. YOU TALK WORSE THAN A KID BUT OUT OF ALL THE RUBBISH YOU SAID, THERE'S ONLY 1 THING YOU SAID WHICH IS CORRECT. A VOTE FOR DAP IS A VOTE FOR PAS TO HAVE MALAYSIAN CHINESE DOOMED FOR LIFE.

Anonymous said...

I don't want to flee this country becos I'm forced to abide to Hudud Law, I don't want to leave this country becos there's no Bak Kut Teh or Char Siew Pau to eat, I don't want to travel to Thailand just to celebrate Christmas, I don't want to travel to Singapore just to get a taste of casino life, I don't want my name to change to Abdullah XXXX, I don't want to disgrace & abandon my own race, I don't want to go to Muzium Negara just to see chopsticks, I don't want to learn Jawi just to be able to read the local newspapers, I still want to watch Astro Wah Lai Toi & not Arabia Toi, I still want to see cinemas around, I don't want to play hide-&-seek just to drink a gulp of whisky, wine or beer.

Only MCA can help me now. DAP already sesat now.

kuantan tiger said...

Malaysia government too clever in allowing settle a rare earth plant but WITHOUT a specific regulation in radioactive waste and WILLING to manage the waste in >300 years ! Just for the benefit of few fellow.

taken from paper written by Teng Iyu Lin (Ms) Atomic Energy Licensing Board.(AELB)

"DECOMMISSIONING AND DECONTAMINATION OF MINERAL PROCESSING PLANT IN MALAYSIA"

3.REGULATORY EXPERIENCE
LEGAL REQUIREMENT
Since Malaysia does not have any specific regulation on disposal and management of radioactive waste, AELB enforces the waste management policy through its licensing procedure and conditions of license issued to the licensee.

4. INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL
The planned institutional control will be for at least 300 years. During this period, the owner will carry maintenance work (to mend fence, warning signs, markers), ensure no serious damage due to erosion, human intrusion for cultivation or animal encroachment

http://www.tint.or.th/waste/RWM_newsletter_No20.pdf

bruno said...

TOKZ,I thought that you are supposed to go back to the hole that you came out from.The camel's asshole.You nimkompoot,borned with diffective brains with pea sized bolas,less one batang,good for nothing,smell all over with booze and grass.You uncouth spoilt brat,coming out to talk nonsense.Your parents will be ashamed of you if they were to find out that you are actually TOKZ,you batang sucking pondan.

bruno said...

If the cabinet members and their lackey politicians think that Lynas is so safe as they said "WALK THE TALK".

Lead by example.Move all the federal ministries to Pahang and set up shop near the Lynas plant.
Builf the Umnoputras palaces and let them roost there and have babies and grandbabies.

Anonymous said...

TOKZ said 'dear my fellow Chinese brothers/sisters....the choice is yours.TOKZ,you ada makan babi,yeh.You bukan Cina lah,poorah.

Anonymous said...

TOKZ is a "CHAP CENG KIA".

Anonymous said...

TOKZ,your political bosses ask you to wash the toilets before you go home as you have done a lousy job rubbishing the opposition.Do not forget or you will have no more job left when you report for work the next morning.

Anonymous said...

Tokz,you sa orang bodoh,tak ada otak,fikir ke binatang,otak serupa ekor lembu,apa macham chakap te fikir eh.Jadi moron,circus clown atau apa apa lah.Sa orang outcast from society lah.

Anonymous said...

The dumb TOKZ talks ayam jantan.This scum is trying to stir shit up whever he goes.An f..king lowdown impostor.Still drinks milk direct from the tits although he is in the late fourties.Still acting like a mama's baby.

Anonymous said...

When the anti rally was going on in Kuantan should have hauled TOKZ there and chain him to the next available tree nearest to the Lynas plant and let him stay there forever.

Anonymous said...

Until the state is in the hand of PR, like the case of Penang, Lynas building will be built without delay, it is a sad scenario for the resident of Kuantan, but reality doesn't always work in the favor of the people. Hopefully the ongoing peaceful protests can bring about a positive result for our brother and sister living in Kuantan. SIGH!!

hwlooi said...

Holding Pure Thorium-232 in the Hand

IF you go to Google and do a search for pictures of how foreign scientists handle Thorium-232 and even pure enriched Uranium-235 and 238, you would be able to find a lot of pictures that clearly show that you can safely hold pure thorium or uranium pellets or rods in your hands.
This is because Thorium-232, when it decays, produces only alpha particles and no gamma rays.

Because of the very long half life of Thorium-232, which is 14 billion years (the age of the universe is only 13.7 billion years), the amount of Thorium-232 which is transformed to Radium-228 after, say a year, is incredibly small.

As such, only a tiny amount of alpha radiation (helium atoms without their electrons) is produced by the thorium atoms.

Alpha particles do not penetrate the human skin and are, therefore, not dangerous.

Thorium-232 is safe, provided we are not stupid enough to eat it or grind it up into a fine powder and inhale it.

Even if you were to consume the non-radioactive Lead-208, you would not be staying healthy for long.

Thorium-232 does not produce the dangerous penetrating ionizing gamma rays.
The 0.09 MeV of gamma radiation detected comes from Thorium-228's decay to Radium-224 to Radon-220 to Polonium-216 and ultimately through a number of pathways to the stable non-radioactive Lead-208.

That is why I really cannot understand why people in Kuantan are so irrationally fearful of Lynas Corporation's rare earth plant, which will produce only a small amount of Thorium-232 in their waste product.

That plant is neither a nuclear reactor nor a nuclear bomb manufacturing facility.

It is only a plant to extract rare earth from its ore, which is dug up from the ground.

And the rare earth ore has been in the ground for billions of years.

The situation has become ridiculous, and even farcical.

For instance, one of my friends has even stopped construction of his new house in Kuantan because he is fearful of a nuclear explosion in the Lynas plant.

This impossibility has become a probability in the minds of the intensely brainwashed people in Kuantan.
*

http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242


http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/16/rare-earth-a-richer-malaysia-and-a-greener-world/#comment-76493

hwlooi said...

What Benefit Do Malaysia Get From The Lynas Plant?


Even a primary school child should know that the construction of a multi-billion dollar industrial plant would bring enormous financial benefits to the local community as well as to the country.

Construction of the plant had provided a substantial boost to suppliers of commodities like concrete and steel and manufacturers of hundreds of other components. For example, the plant had used thousands of cubic metres of concrete—as well as
• Thousands of tons of steel and miles of piping
• Hundreds of miles of electric wiring and hundreds of electrical components and all these are supplied by our local contractors.
The construction of the plant itself would had added hundreds of millions to the gross domestic product.

Each year, the plant will generate billions in sales of the rare earth (economic output) and millions more in total labour income. These figures include both direct and secondary effects. The direct effects reflect the plant’s expenditures for goods, services and labour. The secondary effects include subsequent spending attributable to the presence of the plant and its employees as plant expenditures filter through the local economy (e.g., restaurants and shops buying goods and hiring employees).


And the subsequent production of the plant is expected to be in the billions of ringgit and this is considered to be part of the country's gross domestic product (GDP). Billions more would be added to the GDP as a result of the spin-off effect.

And when our GDP is increased by the billions, the government will be allowed to print more billions of ringgit to pay for the schools, hospitals, subsidies and scholarships etc for the people, without any devaluation of our ringgit by the foreigners.

Key Facts
• Each year, the plant will generate millions to billions of ringgit as a spin-off effect in sales of goods and services in the local community and millions more in total labour income.
• Operation of the plant creates more than 350 highly paid permanent jobs. These jobs pay much more than those working the super markets or places like Kentucky Fried Chicken.
• The permanent jobs at the plant create an equivalent number of additional jobs in the local area to provide the goods and services necessary to support the plant work force (e.g., grocery stores, dry cleaners, car dealers). Even the sex workers in Kuantan would benefit!
• Construction of the new plant had created up to thousands of jobs at peak construction.

• Local contractors had benefited enormously from the construction of the plant, in terms of hundreds of millions of ringgit

• The yearly production of billions of ringgit of rare earth will add billions to our GDP and produce billions in export earnings (even though the money belongs to Lynas share holders, the national statistics will show up as our own in terms of GDP growth and export growth).

hwlooi said...

Why do we have to give Lynas the 12 yrs tax free incentive?


Quote Optiplex330:

"Giving tax break is very common to entice people to set up business. If you are an Indian or Chinese your forebear coming from India or China know that very well. They were enticed to come to Malaysia to open up the country, and land were practically given free. Old people told me their land rental is a single pepper corn. Those who don't know about tax break know zero about businesses. Having said that, I think the maximum is 10 yrs so Lynas is unusual in that it is given 12 years.

A classic example: Businesses have to give Bumi 30% share but when Intel came to Penang, they were allowed SPECIAL treatment and don't have to give a single share to Bumi (may be this explain the extra 2 yrs tax break?). Why? This is because the government badly wanted Intel because when they come, they will bring along an entire electronic industry to Malaysia. So while government do not directly benefited from Intel, the follow on industry created by Intel greatly benefited Malaysia.

And also for this reason, those who think Lynas produces only about 300 jobs and no tax revenue for Malaysia are just being short sighted. They don't know that because of Lynas, a Green Technology industry could be born and Siemens is the 1st to announce coming precisely because of Lynas. But because of Anti-Lynas, Siemens may pull out so there go more jobs and tax revenue for Malaysia."

In Other Words, The Plant WILL Boost Local and Country's Economy.
The Lynas plant WILL provide substantial economic benefits during the decades of operation. The jobs, employee's taxes, and direct and secondary spending WILL strengthen the economy.

SO DO NOT ASK THE NON-PHYSICAL and RATHER CHILDISH QUESTION OF WHAT BENEFIT DO MALAYSIA GET FROM THE LYNAS PLANT!

Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK) MRCP(London)

hwlooi said...

If it is so good, why is it that no other country wants these plants built?


Not true. A number of other countries have built or are building these rare earth plants.

New Rare Earth Plants

1. Arafura in Whayalla Australia
2. Great Western Minerals in Steenkampskraal South Afrika
3. Avalon Rare Metal in Thor Lake Canada
4. Alkane in Dubbo New South Wales Australia
5. Molycorp Inc. in Mountain Pass, California, USA
6. Tasman in Sweden
7. Greenland Minerals and Energy in Greenland
8. Canada Rare Earth in Canada




In the past the rare earth plants in America were closed for the same reason why any mine or company close down...it had become uneconomical i.e. losing money!

This was because at that time China was selling rare earth elements at a ridiculously low price and nobody could compete with them.

Feb 22, 2012 :
Molycorp Inc. said it will start up a newly constructed rare earths processing plant at its Mountain Pass, Calif., operation this week.
Crushing and cracking operations as well as the facility’s combined heat and power plant are scheduled to come online this week, while other components—including milling and mineral extraction, rare earth oxide...

Australians building Giant Rare Earth Plant in Australia:

It should also be noted that Australians are delighted that a company called Arafura is building a huge Rare Earth Processing Plant costing over A$1 Billion in Whyalla in South Australia.

This plant is expected to produce over 1,000 high paying jobs for the Australians.

Arafura must be hoping that we are stupid enough to stop Lynas and stop competing with them.

Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London).
*

http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242


http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/16/rare-earth-a-richer-malaysia-and-a-greener-world/#comment-76493

Molycorps in California, USA
http://www.molycorp.com/

Alkan and Arafura in Australia. Arafura plant is right next to the town of Whyalla so somehow Australian do not fear death but Malaysia are scared to death.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/whyalla-jobs...u-1225925222476

Tasman in Sweden
http://www.tasmanmetals.com/s/Norra-Karr.asp

Greenland Minerals and Energy in Greenland
http://www.ggg.gl/

Canada Rare Earth in Canada
http://www.canadarareearths.com/

hwlooi said...

Thorium-232 has a half-life of 14 billion years and our descendants will be exposed to dangerous radiation for over 14 billion years?


This is absolutely not true and is a very common misconception.

In fact there was a ridiculous claim in the Sin Chew Newspaper by the chairman of a certain NGO that since Thorium-232 has a half-life of 14 Billion years, it is very dangerous for an extremely long time and will even affect our descendants!

He should not be making any such nonsensical statements if he has absolutely no basic knowledge of even elementary kindergarten physics.

THE LONGER THE HALF-LIFE OF A SUBSTANCE THE LESS IS THE RADIOACTIVITY and as such the less dangerous it is.

As a simple analogy, if it takes 14,000,000,000 years for half of a house to be burnt, there is no chance of anybody getting hurt. But if it takes only 14 minutes for half of the house to be burnt down, a lot of people will be injured or killed.

Lead-208 i.e. the so-called non-radioactive lead has an even longer half-life of
19 Million Billion Years and as such the radioactivity is so low that it is practically undetectable and we use it in our car batteries.

Thorium-232 which is the only significant radioactive element found in the Lynas waste has an incredibly long half-life of 14 billion years and as such is much less radioactive than the Potassium-40 whose half-life is only 1.25 billion years.

Comparison of Radioactivity in Bq (number of atoms decaying in 1second)

Pure Thorium-232 = 4,080 Bq/gm
Pure Potassium-40 (Half-life of 1.25 billion yrs) = 254,000 Bq/gm
Naturally Occurring Potassium (3 different isotopes) in our body and food = 31.825 Bq/gm
Artificially created Plutonium-238 (1/2 life=87.7 years)
= 634,000,000,000 Bq/gm
Lynas Rare Earth Waste = 6 Bq/gm

Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB.,ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)

hwlooi said...

Thorium-232 has a half-life of 14 billion years and our descendants will be exposed to dangerous radiation for over 14 billion years?


This is absolutely not true and is a very common misconception.

In fact there was a ridiculous claim in the Sin Chew Newspaper by the chairman of a certain NGO that since Thorium-232 has a half-life of 14 Billion years, it is very dangerous for an extremely long time and will even affect our descendants!

He should not be making any such nonsensical statements if he has absolutely no basic knowledge of even elementary kindergarten physics.

THE LONGER THE HALF-LIFE OF A SUBSTANCE THE LESS IS THE RADIOACTIVITY and as such the less dangerous it is.

As a simple analogy, if it takes 14,000,000,000 years for half of a house to be burnt, there is no chance of anybody getting hurt. But if it takes only 14 minutes for half of the house to be burnt down, a lot of people will be injured or killed.

Lead-208 i.e. the so-called non-radioactive lead has an even longer half-life of
19 Million Billion Years and as such the radioactivity is so low that it is practically undetectable and we use it in our car batteries.

Thorium-232 which is the only significant radioactive element found in the Lynas waste has an incredibly long half-life of 14 billion years and as such is much less radioactive than the Potassium-40 whose half-life is only 1.25 billion years.

Comparison of Radioactivity in Bq (number of atoms decaying in 1second)

Pure Thorium-232 = 4,080 Bq/gm
Pure Potassium-40 (Half-life of 1.25 billion yrs) = 254,000 Bq/gm
Naturally Occurring Potassium (3 different isotopes) in our body and food = 31.825 Bq/gm
Artificially created Plutonium-238 (1/2 life=87.7 years)
= 634,000,000,000 Bq/gm
Lynas Rare Earth Waste = 6 Bq/gm

Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB.,ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)

hwlooi said...

Lynas radioactive and toxic waste will polute our air and water?

Kuantan People Not Miners and Lynas plant is not a rare earth mine.

Quote:
"vast tracts of lands and thousands of square kilometres have been rendered hazardous, with toxic runoffs destroying everything in their path, and with high radioactivity, tainting and polluting precious water supplies." Unquote

I HAVE TO KEEP REPEATING THAT KUANTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT MINERS IN THE RARE EARTH OR URANIUM OR THORIUM MINES.

The " with toxic runoffs destroying everything in their path, and with high radioactivity, tainting and polluting precious water supplies.",
ARE FROM THE MINES AND NOT FROM THE MODERN REFINING CHEMICAL PLANTS!

PLEASE DO NOT KEEP ON REFERRING US IN KUANTAN AND COMPARING US TO "THE WORKERS IN THE MINES EXPOSED TO THORIUM BY INHALATION OF FINE PARTICLES !

" Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE."

AND NOBODY FROM LYNAS IS GOING AROUND IN KUANTAN INJECTING US WITH THORIUM DIOXIDE !!

I REPEAT: KUANTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT RARE EARTH OR THORIUM MINERS !

The rare earth miners in the case of the Lynas Rare Earth Plant are still in a place called Mount Weld in Western Australia !

If there is any long term lung problem, the Australians are the ones who will be getting those problems and not the Kuantan people.

Kuantan people are just ordinary traders, office workers, taxi drivers or just hanging around doing nothing in the air-conditioned malls.

It is tantamount to claiming that since workers in the granite quarries and underground tin mines developed severe lung disease (silicosis) and lung cancer from inhaling dust containing silica (sand), the millions of tons of sand in our beaches should be relocated to somewhere safe or shipped back to...?Australia.

Definite evidence that crystalline silica (Sand, Sio2) is associated with an increased rate of lung cancer led the International Agency for Research on
Cancer (IARC) to conclude in 1997 that crystalline silica is a known human
carcinogen.

You can find the data even in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_1_carcinogens

Normally the IARC list do not detail the conditions which is attached to the agent before it can be deemed to be carcinogenic.

You can find the data in the IARC monograph when they approved the labelling of Thorium-232 as a carcinogen.

For instance even ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from silica induced lung cancer.
The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.

The same condition apply to Thorium-232 i.e.
" Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE."

Practically all the data on Thorium-232 and cancer comes from the intravenous injection of Thorotrast.
In the past where huge doses of 25cc to 50 cc of a 25%solution of Thorium dioxide (Thorotrast) was injected into the vein for contrast radiological studies, a very small number out of the 4 million or so patients were believed to have developed cancers 20 to 30 years later in their old age.

hwlooi said...

According to the USA EPA, Thorium-232 can get into the body easily by Inhalation?


There are only 2 natural ways of getting any substance into your body:

1. By Eating it (Ingestion) or

2. By Breathing it (Inhalation)

Thorium-232 in clay soil cannot get into you blood stream if you eat it because of it's strong adsorption to clay (stuck firmly to clay).

As explained below, you need to eat far more than 17,000 Kilograms of Lynas waste before you can get cancer in about 30 years time in your old age.

Likewise, you need to breathe in 3.4 Kilograms of Lynas waste (in order to get 5.58 gm of Thorium or 1 vial of Thorotrast) to get cancer in about 30 years time !

As stated, Kuantan people are not MINERS and as such it is impossible to inhale 3.4 Kilograms even in a life-time !

Thorium-232 is harmless when outside the body as it produces only alpha rays which cannot penetrate even a thin piece of paper.

All you have to do is to wrap it up in a piece of newspaper and it will become virtually non-radioactive.

So if Thoriun-232 cannot get into the body in significant amount by inhalation or ingestion and it poses no external threat,

HOW and WHY on earth IS IT CONSIDERED TO BE SO DANGEROUS BY THE ANTI-LYNAS PEOPLE ?

hwlooi said...

My Reply to Soo Jin Hou’s Letter in the Sun Daily

“LET’S de-politicize the Lynas issue” (Letters, March 23) refers.
The writer said 0.02% to 0.05% of ingested thorium is absorbed and gets into the blood stream. Absorption studies were done on animals for obvious reasons, and in the vast majority of these, the thorium was not mixed with clay, which binds very strongly to the clay particles i.e. adsorbed.

Thorium-232 is strongly bound (adsorbed) by soil especially clay soil. The thorium concentration in the clay particles is about 500,000% higher than in the water between the clay particles (the interstitial spaces of the clay particles). So, it cannot be leached out by water or intestinal juice.

When ingested, there is insignificant absorption of the thorium because of this strong bond between clay particles and thorium. Practically all the thorium will be excreted in the faeces with the clay.
So the actual amount of thorium that is absorbed into the blood stream when mixed with clay soil as in the case of the Lynas waste is much, much less than 0.02%.

Since Lynas waste contains 1,650 parts of thorium per million and even if we take the inflated rate of 0.02% absorption, it would mean that to get 0.33g of thorium into the blood stream, we have to swallow 1,000kg (1 tonne) of Lynas waste!

Practically all the data on the carcinogenic effects of thorium-232 was obtained retrospectively from the intravenous use of a massive dose of thorium dioxide called Thorotrast (a 25cc vial of a 25% colloidal suspension of thorium dioxide) in investigative radiological studies.

Studies appear to show that a small number out of the 4 million patients who were given this massive dose of 1 or 2 vials (containing 5.58g to 11.7g of thorium) of Thorotrast, developed cancer especially of the liver 20 to 30 years later in their old age.

So in order to get 5.58g of thorium-232 (equivalent to 1 vial of Thorotrast), we have to swallow an incredible 17,000kg or 17 tonnes of Lynas waste!

I do not think anybody in Kuantan will be able to swallow 17 tonnes of Lynas waste … and that is assuming that the thorium-232 is not strongly adsorbed to clay particles.

With respect to the inhalation of thorium-232, all studies were conducted on workers in the uranium or thorium mining or refining industry and not on populations in towns like Kuantan, and therefore do not apply to the present issue.

hwlooi said...

Thorium-232 is Carcinogenic According to IARC?


One of the anti-lynas people maintained that the International Agency for Research for Cancer IARC listed Thorium-232 as a group 1 Carcinogen (a definite cancer causing drug).

But this is only a half truth.

Thorium-232 is considered a group 1 carcinogen on condition that :

" Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE."

That is it is a cancer causing agent ONLY if the Thorium-232 is injected into the vein and NOT a cancer causing agent if it is ingested or inhaled.
In other words, Thorium-232 can cause cancer ONLY if someone inject you with a large amount (5.8 gm or 1 vial of Thorotrast) of Thorium dioxide directly into your veins.

NOBODY FROM LYNAS IS GOING ROUND INJECTING THE KUANTAN PEOPLE WITH THORIUM-232!

You can find the data even in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_1_carcinogens

Normally the IARC list do not detail the conditions which is attached to the agent before it can be deemed to be carcinogenic.

You can find the data in the IARC monograph when they approved the labelling of Thorium-232 as a carcinogen.

For instance ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from cancer.

The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.

The same condition apply to Thorium-232 i.e.
" Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE."


Part of the IARC list of Carcinogens in :


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_1_carcinogens
• Schistosoma haematobium (infection with)
• Silica, crystalline (inhaled in the form of quartz or cristobalite from occupational sources)
• Solar radiation
• Talc containing asbestiform fibres
• Tamoxifen5
• 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin
• Thiotepa (1,1',1"-Phosphinothioylidynetrisaziridine)
• Thorium-232 and its decay products, administered intravenously as a colloidal dispersion of thorium-232 dioxide

hwlooi said...

In Bukit Merah, the radiation comes from Thorium and Uranium which are our own and has been in Malaysia for billions of years.

Although the radiation level is well over 37 times that of the Lynas waste, there is no definite well controlled scientific proof that the cases of leukaemia and birth defects are caused by radiation from the waste.

I have seen lots of cases of leukaemia and other types of cancer as well as birth defects over the last 45 years or so in Malaysia and unfortunately we do not have Lynas around at that time to use as a scapegoat.

Unscrupulous people have been using videos and pictures of patients with congenital abnormalities and other illnesses to instil fear into the population. There is absolutely no scientific proof that these cases are caused by radiation.

Only the absolutely immoral people would use pictures and videos of these unfortunate patients whose disorders have nothing to do with radiation to score political points !

In the south of the state of Kerala in India the soil contains as much as 4,000 ppm (parts of Thorium per million). Studies have shown that there is little or no accumulation of Thorium-232 in the inhabitants.

The Lynas waste contains only 1,650 ppm.

It has been estimated that in the worst case scenario, the radiation risk from the Lynas plant is only 0.002 mSv/yr.

In Ramsar, Iran, the naturally occurring radiation
is extremely high at 260 mSv/yr.
This is 13,000,000% higher than the expected worse case scenario in Kuantan.

And the people in Ramsar, Iran has been found to be healthier and live longer than the rest of the Iranians! There is also no increase in the number of cancer cases.

Remember the Tin slags from the Eastern Smelting and Straits Trading in Penang ? These, which contain the tantalum and monazite ore, and the monazite ore can be more than 3,700 % more radioactive than the Lynas waste.

And these radioactive tin slags were used to fill up the old Penang Stadium and the roads in Penang. A lot of these has already been stolen and sold off at a huge profit, but a lot still remains in the roads in Butterworth and Penang island.

The people in Penang have not developed Cancer so far as a result of these slags!

Even ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from silica induced lung cancer.

The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.

Thorium-232 is a very weakly radioactive substance and produces only alpha particles which cannot even penetrate a thin piece of paper.
All you have to do is to wrap it up in a piece of newspaper and it is for all intents an purposes, is non-radioactive !

" Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE."
It is not considered to be a cancer causing substance if taken orally or inhaled according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC, just like silica (sand) which is not carcinogenic if ingested.

Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB.,ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)

hwlooi said...

If radiation from the Lynas plant is not dangerous, why is it that so most people in Kuantan believe that it is dangerous and want it stopped?


Most of the people in Kuantan have been misled by some very sophisticated ultra-devious people who are experts in mass brainwashing the people and who are using the issue to gain political mileage.

In Bukit Merah, the radiation comes from Thorium and Uranium which are our own and has been in Malaysia for billions of years.

Although the radiation level is well over 37 times that of the Lynas waste, there is no definite well controlled scientific proof that the cases of leukaemia and birth defects are caused by radiation from the waste.

I have seen lots of cases of leukaemia and other types of cancer as well as birth defects over the last 45 years or so in Malaysia and unfortunately we do not have Lynas around at that time to use as a scapegoat.

Unscrupulous people have been using videos and pictures of patients with congenital abnormalities and other illnesses to instil fear into the population. There is absolutely no scientific proof that these cases are caused by radiation.

Only the absolutely immoral of the Malaysian society would use a these unfortunate patients pictures whose disorders have nothing to do with radiation to score political points !

In the south of the state of Kerala in India the soil contains as much as 4,000 ppm (parts of Thorium per million). Studies have shown that there is little or no accumulation of Thorium-232 in the inhabitants.

The Lynas waste contains only 1,650 ppm.

It has been estimated that in the worst case scenario, the radiation risk from the Lynas plant is only 0.002 mSv/yr.

In Ramsar, Iran, the naturally occurring radiation
is extremely high at 260 mSv/yr.
This is 13,000,000% higher than the expected worse case scenario in Kuantan.

And the people in Ramsar, Iran has been found to be healthier and live longer than the rest of the Iranians! There is also no increase in the number of cancer cases.

Remember the Tin slags from the Eastern Smelting and Straits Trading in Penang ? These, which contain the tantalum and monazite ore, and the monazite ore can be more than 3,700 % more radioactive than the Lynas waste.

And these radioactive tin slags were used to fill up the old Penang Stadium and the roads in Penang. A lot of these has already been stolen and sold off at a huge profit, but a lot still remains in the roads in Butterworth and Penang island.

The people in Penang have not developed Cancer so far as a result of these slags!

Even ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from silica induced lung cancer.

The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.

Thorium-232 is a very weakly radioactive substance and produces only alpha particles which cannot even penetrate a thin piece of paper.
All you have to do is to wrap it up in a piece of newspaper and it is for all intents an purposes, is non-radioactive !

" Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE."
It is not considered to be a cancer causing substance if taken orally or inhaled according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC, just like silica (sand) which is not carcinogenic if ingested.

Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah

hwlooi said...

What about the "Tragedy" in Bukit Merah?


In Bukit Merah, the radiation comes from Thorium and Uranium which are our own and has been in Malaysia for billions of years.

Although the radiation level is well over 37 times that of the Lynas waste, there is no definite well controlled scientific proof that the cases of leukaemia and birth defects are caused by radiation from the waste.

I have seen lots of cases of leukaemia and other types of cancer as well as birth defects over the last 45 years or so in Malaysia and unfortunately we do not have Lynas around at that time to use as a scapegoat.

Unscrupulous people have been using videos and pictures of patients with congenital abnormalities and other illnesses to instil fear into the population. There is absolutely no scientific proof that these cases are caused by radiation.

Only the absolutely immoral people would use pictures and videos of these unfortunate patients whose disorders have nothing to do with radiation to score political points!

In the south of the state of Kerala in India the soil contains as much as 4,000 ppm (parts of Thorium per million). Studies have shown that there is little or no accumulation of Thorium-232 in the inhabitants.

The Lynas waste contains only 1,650 ppm.

It has been estimated that in the worst case scenario, the radiation risk from the Lynas plant is only 0.002 mSv/yr.

In Ramsar, Iran, the naturally occurring radiation
is extremely high at 260 mSv/yr.
This is 13,000,000% higher than the expected worse case scenario in Kuantan.

And the people in Ramsar, Iran has been found to be healthier and live longer than the rest of the Iranians! There is also no increase in the number of cancer cases.

Remember the Tin slag from the Eastern Smelting and Straits Trading in Penang ? These, which contain the tantalum and monazite ore, and the monazite ore can be more than 3,700 % more radioactive than the Lynas waste.

And these radioactive tin slag were used to fill up the old Penang Stadium and the roads in Penang. A lot of these has already been stolen and sold off at a huge profit, but a lot still remains in the roads in Butterworth and Penang island.

The people in Penang have not developed Cancer so far as a result of these slag!

Even ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from silica induced lung cancer.

The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.

Thorium-232 is a very weakly radioactive substance and produces only alpha particles which cannot even penetrate a thin piece of paper.
All you have to do is to wrap it up in a piece of newspaper and it is for all intents an purposes, is non-radioactive !

" Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE."
It is not considered to be a cancer causing substance if taken orally or inhaled according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC, just like silica (sand) which is not carcinogenic if ingested.

Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah

hwlooi said...

If the radiation from the Lynas waste is negligible, what about the toxic chemical waste?

If you really want to go 100% GREEN,
Close Down All Our Factories, Industrial Plants, Power Plants, Oil Rigs etc, and Become a 4th World Country and Send Our Daughters and Granddaughters To Myanmar and Kampuchea to Work as Domestic Servants!

I have always maintained that the main problem is not radiation but the normal chemical toxic wastes from a normal chemical plant.

I agree that there is also a fear that the waste will be dumped all over the place. Unfortunately, this risk also apply to all our factories and plants. Should we demand that all our factories and plants to be closed down so that we can go back to the good old days of tapping rubber and plucking coconuts for the BIG WHITE MAN?

And why is it that we only target Lynas and not the rest of all our factories and industrial plants which produce far more toxic wastes especially our own oil palm mills and tin mining and smelting industries?

Using the same logic we should ask all these plants to send all their wastes back to Germany, England, US etc. I bet with you nobody would want to invest in Malaysia. We will remain poor and may have to send our daughters and granddaughters to work as lowly domestic maids in other countries.

Quote Ng Ai Soo

"And what about other pollution and/or radiation sources in the environment before Lynas even starts. For example, a 1,000MW coal plant after just 1 year of operation produces 6,000,000 tons of CO2, 44,000 tons of SO2, 22,000 tons of NO2, 320,000 tons of ash containing 400 tons of heavy metals (arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead etc.) and, here’s the kicker, including 5 tons or Uranium and 12 tons of Thorium from which the radon gas of both decay chains are out the chimney and into our air... and we are building TWO of these now to add to those we already have on the peninsula."

con't

hwlooi said...

con't


I hope the explanation by Jonathan Fun will also help.

By Jonathan Fun reply to Hon. Prof Chan's Letter

Quote:

"I read with great interest the debate and evidences shown by both sides.

While acknowledging Prof. Chan's arguments, doubts, concerns, and counter-evidences on the effects of Thorium, I must agree with Datuk Dr. Looi and Ng Ai Soo's points in what I'd like to call "Selective Rejection".

We all know the effects of Thorium to our health through the inhalation route; microscopic thorium dusts entering our bloodstream, majority of those amounts will be deposited in our bone marrows and stays there for the next 22 years, emitting alpha radiation, increasing risks to cancer, etc.

But again, consider Ng Ai Soo's comment from Chan's previous article :

" And what about other pollution and/or radiation sources in the environment before Lynas even starts. For example, a 1,000MW coal plant after just 1 year of operation produces 6,000,000 tons of CO2, 44,000 tons of SO2, 22,000 tons of NO2, 320,000 tons of ash containing 400 tons of heavy metals (arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead etc.)

And, here’s the kicker, including 5 tons or Uranium and 12 tons of Thorium from which the radon gas of both decay chains are out the chimney and into our air... and we are building TWO of these now to add to those we already have on the peninsula.

"In fact, the fly ash emitted by a power plant—a by-product from burning coal for electricity—carries into the surrounding environment 100 times more radiation than a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of energy." (Quote from Scientific American)

Where do we store this waste? Does this waste go into making our roads or construction material? What is Lynas waste in comparison?! How did we manage to put up with that yearly radioactive and toxic waste, and plan to build more of the same, with no objection from you?

Be fair... if you want to protect us from industrial radiation pollution, then tackle the whole lot of them in proportion to their pollution, not just Lynas. Dr. Looi's presentation of the facts is clear and persuasive compared with the unnecessary fear, uncertainty and doubt that taints your article in reply to him. "

The keyword here IMHO is "Uncertainty", which brings us back to the discussion of the "Precautionary Principle".

There is nothing wrong being doubtful of the effects of Thorium, hence rejecting it, and there is nothing wrong being confident that Thorium wastes that will be produced by Lynas if they are given the green light to operate, are going to be safe, given the scientific facts that proves it.

But what I'd like to implore those hardcore Anti-Lynas/Anti-Rare Earth/Anti-Whatever friends out there to understand, is that when we make a stand, it must be based on a principle, and for the stand to be credible and fair, it must be applied across the board.

So we know iron/copper mines also produces not just Thorium, but Radium and Uranium wastes too.

And we know rock phosphate fertilizer production facilities also produces not just Thorium, but Radium and Uranium wastes too.

Hence, if the reason we are all so head over heals about throwing Lynas out of our shores is because of the potential hazards of Thorium, or the uncertainty that Thorium will be safe, then let our will be done. Reject Lynas. Get them out of the country. Shoo.

But we can't let existing industries which are also producing Thorium wastes, like iron/copper mines and fertilizer plants, to continue operating as well. Reject any industry that produces Thorium wastes. Get them out of the country. Shoo.

Can we all agree on this stand? Else going all out to reject Lynas while allowing existing industries that also produces Thorium wastes to continue operation is just plain hypocritical. "


Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)

hwlooi said...

The Problem: A Mountain of Lynas Waste ?


A reader once asked " Would it be safe to say 132,000,000,000 bq will be resulting from 22,000 tonnes of Lynas waste even though it has only 6 bq per gm?"

Well, Thorium-232 produces only alpha rays (gamma rays from daughter isotopes are insignificant, please see below) which cannot pass through even a thin piece of paper or the surface of the skin.

If you have a lump of pure Thorium-232, all you need to do is to wrap it up in newspaper and that will stop all the alpha radiation from getting out!

Since alpha particles of Thorium-232 which decay with energies of 3.8 to about 4.8 MeV can travel only a couple of centimetres in air, only less than 50 micron in fluids and much less in solid material, even if you have a huge pile of Lynas waste, the external radiation would not increase by much because only a tiny percentage of thorium-232 atoms directly on the surface of the pile will be able to radiate out their alpha particles.

Those just below the surface will remain inside the pile. Each alpha particle will just pick up 2 electrons and be converted to the simple non-radioactive helium gas.

Even those alpha particles from the surface will be converted to harmless helium gas after a few centimetres through the air.

So all that your mountain of Lynas waste will only "radiate" harmless non-radioactive Helium gas.

The radiation of 6 bq/gm from the weakly radioactive Thorium-232 in the Lynas waste is so low that even IAEA do not consider it significant and as such can be transported without any special permission.

One reader stated that although Thorium-232 may not be dangerous, all their "daughter" isotopes have very short half-lives like Radon-220 and these are highly radioactive, so how could we say that Thorium-232 is not dangerous.

Well, the reason is obvious. But I find great difficulty in explaining to the layman the reason why when an element with an extremely long half-life that decays into isotopes with very short half-life, there is minimal accumulation of the short half-life isotopes and as such do not build up into a large enough quantity to pose any significant hazard.

I will try to explain by this simple analogy.
If there are 2 million people waiting outside a stadium and 1 million people managed to get into the stadium after 14,000,000,000 years (half-life of Thorium-232), it means that you will see only 1 person getting into the stadium every 14,000 years.

But once in the stadium the half-life of the new person (half-life of Radon-220 from the Thorium-232 decay chain is only 55 seconds) is so short when compared with those outside (Thorium-232) that he has left the stadium almost immediately. Getting in is extremely slow but getting out is extremely fast!

Since only 1 person gets into the stadium every 14,000 years, if you look into the stadium you will see it as empty most of the time!

It is just like trying to fill up a bucket by a slow, slow drop by drop drip and the bucket has a big hole at the bottom. If you look into the bucket you will see practically little or no water in it!

Since the Lynas waste product has only 6 Bq/gm of radioactivity, the chance of detecting any significant amount of radon gas is pretty slim indeed.

Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah

hwlooi said...

What about the non-radioactive wastes from the Lynas plant? >4K


And what about other pollution and/or radiation sources in the environment before Lynas even starts?

Quote Ng AS "For example, a 1,000MW coal plant after just 1 year of operation produces 6,000,000 tons of CO2, 44,000 tons of SO2, 22,000 tons of NO2, 320,000 tons of ash containing 400 tons of heavy metals (arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead etc.) and, here’s the kicker, including 5 tons or Uranium and 12 tons of Thorium from which the radon gas of both decay chains are out the chimney and into our air... and we are building TWO of these now to add to those we already have on the peninsula.

Where do we store this waste? Does this waste go into making our roads or construction material? What is Lynas waste in comparison?! How did we manage to put up with that yearly radioactive and toxic waste, and plan to build more of the same, with no objection from the Anti-Lynas people? "

"In fact, the fly ash emitted by a power plant—a by-product from burning coal for electricity—carries into the surrounding environment 100 times more radiation than a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of energy." (Quote from Scientific American)

So to be fair we have to close down all our power plants, factories and industrial plants and go back to the good old days of plucking coconuts and tapping rubber for the BIG WHITE MAN!

The Anti-Lynas people are adamant that we should insist that Lynas waste be sent back to Australia.
Using the same logic, we should ask Intel, Motorolla, Seagate, Honda and all the foreign factories to send all their waste back to England, USA, Germany, Taiwan and Japan.

I can bet with you that no SANE foreigner would be stupid enough to invest in Malaysia and with all our factories closed we would remain a poor agricultural country.

AND OUR DESCENDANTS WILL HAVE TO SEND THEIR DAUGHTERS AND GRANDDAUGHTERS TO WORK AS MAIDS AND DOMESTIC SERVANTS IN MYAMMAR AND KAMPUCHEA!
con't

hwlooi said...

Remember the Tin slag from the Eastern Smelting and Straits Trading in Penang ? These, which contain the tantalum and monazite ore, and the monazite ore can be more than 3,700 % more radioactive than the Lynas waste.

And these radioactive tin slag were used to fill up the old Penang Stadium and the roads in Penang. A lot of these has already been stolen and sold off at a huge profit, but a lot still remains in the roads in Butterworth and Penang island.

The people in Penang have not developed Cancer so far as a result of these slag!

Even ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from silica induced lung cancer.

The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected, for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.

Thorium-232 is a very weakly radioactive substance and produces only alpha particles which cannot even penetrate a thin piece of paper.

All you have to do is to wrap it up in a piece of newspaper and it is for all intents and purposes will become non-radioactive !

" Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE."

It is not considered to be a cancer causing substance if taken orally or inhaled according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC, just like silica (sand) which is not carcinogenic if ingested.

Anti-Lynas quote " The USA has closed most of its mines, and so has China. In inner Mongolia, vast tracts of lands and thousands of square kilometres have been rendered hazardous, with toxic runoffs destroying everything in their path, and with high radioactivity, tainting and polluting precious water supplies." Unquote

I HAVE TO KEEP REPEATING THAT KUANTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT MINERS IN THE RARE EARTH OR URANIUM OR THORIUM MINES.

The " toxic runoffs destroying everything in their path, and with high radioactivity, tainting and polluting precious water supplies.",
IS FROM THE MINES AND NOT FROM THE MODERN REFINING CHEMICAL PLANTS!

PLEASE DO NOT KEEP COMPARING US TO "THE WORKERS IN THE MINES EXPOSED TO THORIUM BY INHALATION OF FINE PARTICLES !

" Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE."

AND NOBODY FROM LYNAS IS GOING AROUND IN KUANTAN INJECTING US WITH THORIUM DIOXIDE !!

I REPEAT: KUANTAN PEOPLE ARE NOT RARE EARTH OR THORIUM MINERS !

The rare earth miners in the case of the Lynas Rare Earth Plant are still in a place called Mount Weld in Western Australia !

If there is any long term lung problem, the Australians are the ones who will be getting those problems and not the Kuantan people.

Kuantan people are just ordinary traders, office workers, taxi drivers or just hanging around doing nothing in the air-conditioned malls.

It is tantamount to claiming that since workers in the granite quarries and underground tin mines developed severe lung disease (silicosis) and lung cancer from inhaling dust containing silica (sand), the millions of tons of sand in our beaches should be relocated to somewhere safe or shipped back to...?Australia.

Definite evidence that crystalline silica (Sand, Sio2) is associated with an increased rate of lung cancer led the International Agency for Research on
Cancer (IARC) to conclude in 1997 that crystalline silica is a known human
carcinogen.

hwlooi said...

Do Not Be too Paranoid about Radiation for Radiation is Everywhere. EVEN YOUR WIFE IS RADIOACTIVE!

Even our DNA is radioactive as the highly radioactive Carbon-14 which constitute a part of the DNA molecule undergoes beta decay by emission of an electron and an antineutrino and changes into Nitrogen-14.
So even our sacred DNA changes with time as a result of this intrinsic radioactivity.

The potassium tablets that your doctor gives you as an adjunct for high blood pressure therapy is highly radioactive with a radioactivity of 32 Bq/gm and we need about 2 to 3 grams of potassium per day to stay alive.

The radioactivity comes from potassium-40. This is more than 500% the radioactivity of the Lynas waste which contains only 6 Bq/gm mainly from Thorium-232.

Potassium when taken stays in the intracellular space where the cancer sensitive chromosomes are located whereas the ingested or inhaled Thorium-232 remains in the extracellular (outside the cell) space.

All the potassium that we eat everyday in our food contains potassium-40 and the normal dietary potassium would give a total of about 80 Bq per day.
Compare this with the Lynas waste which produces only 6 Bq/gm

Even your wife or husband is radioactive, with a radioactivity of 4,000 Bq from Potassium-40 and another 3,000 Bq from Carbon-14 giving a total of about 7,000 Bq!

Since all living cells contain potassium, all types of meat, flesh, fruits, nuts and vegetables are radioactive because of the potassium-40 content.

The so-called sodium free salt recommended by health experts to combat high blood pressure is nothing more than just highly radioactive potassium salt! Even a lot of doctors, specialists and professors do not know this!

A miner for Potassium chloride (16.4 Bq/G) would only need to be near the big pile of the mine for about 7 hours to exceed the public dose limit of 1 mSv.
This exposure level is same dose of radiation as working 6 months in LAMP or living 500 years near it.
The message here is that more radioactive substances are freely sold in the shops and used as a fertilizer or eaten by us than you would otherwise thought.
Guarapari which has a population about 100,000 is a coastal town in Brazil.
Every year, many people visit the beach with black sand in this town for swimming and treatment of rheumatic disorders.
The usual beach sand in Guarapari has a radiation dose of 5 microsievert/hour.
The black sand is even higher with 131 microsievert/hour. Average radiation exposure of Guarapari is 175 milisievert/year.
The radioactivity is originated from the mountains rich in zirconites and monazites along the coast.
Ramsar is a city in Iran with population of more than 31,000. The average dose of radiation received by people in Ramsar is about 10 milisievert/year, and can reach level in exceed of 260 milisievert/year.
Most of the radiation in the area is due to dissolved Radium-226 in water of 9 hot springs along with smaller amounts of uranium and thorium due to travertine (limestone) deposits.
The radiation at Karunagapally has been assessed at 5 to 8 milisievert/year. In certain location on the coast, it is as high as 70 milisievert/year. Thorium was mined in this area from monazites.
Quote Wikipedia: "This high level of radiation does not seem to have caused ill effects on the residents of the area and even possibly has made them slightly more radioresistant, which is puzzling and has been called "radiation paradox". It has also been reported that residents have healthier and longer lives.
On the basis of this and other evidence including the fact that life had originated in a much more irradiated environment, some scientists have questioned the validity of linear no-threshold model, on which all radiation regulations currently depend.
Others point out that some level of radiation might actually be good for health and have a positive effect on population based on the controversial radiation hormesis model, by jump starting DNA repair mechanisms inside the cell. "

hwlooi said...

And what about other pollution and/or radiation sources in the environment before Lynas even starts.

Quote Ng AS "For example, a 1,000MW coal plant after just 1 year of operation produces 6,000,000 tons of CO2, 44,000 tons of SO2, 22,000 tons of NO2, 320,000 tons of ash containing 400 tons of heavy metals (arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead etc.) and, here’s the kicker, including 5 tons or Uranium and 12 tons of Thorium from which the radon gas of both decay chains are out the chimney and into our air... and we are building TWO of these now to add to those we already have on the peninsula.

Where do we store this waste? Does this waste go into making our roads or construction material? What is Lynas waste in comparison?! How did we manage to put up with that yearly radioactive and toxic waste, and plan to build more of the same, with no objection from the Anti-Lynas people? "

"In fact, the fly ash emitted by a power plant—a by-product from burning coal for electricity—carries into the surrounding environment 100 times more radiation than a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of energy." (Quote from Scientific American)

So to be fair we have to close down all our power plants, factories and industrial plants and go back to the good old days of plucking coconuts and tapping rubber for the BIG WHITE MAN!

The Anti-Lynas people are adamant that we should insist that Lynas waste be sent back to Australia.
Using the same logic, we should ask Intel, Motorolla, Seagate, Honda and all the foreign factories to send all their waste back to England, USA, Germany, Taiwan and Japan.

I can bet with you that no SANE foreigner would be stupid enough to invest in Malaysia and with all our factories closed we would remain a poor agricultural country.

AND OUR DESCENDANTS WILL HAVE TO SEND THEIR DAUGHTERS AND GRANDDAUGHTERS TO WORK AS MAIDS AND DOMESTIC SERVANTS IN MYAMMAR AND KAMPUCHEA!

hwlooi said...

CERRIE Minority Report and European Committee on Radiation Risk (ECRR)

The anti-lynas group (including the good Hon. Professor C.) has often used the CERRIE Minority Report to claim that "There is strong evidence that current models of hazard from radioactivity inside the human body underestimate risks by at least 100 and possibly up to 1,000 times."

What happened at CERRIE (Committee Examining Radiation Risks of Internal Emitters) is well known (see http://iopscience.iop.org/0952-4746/24/4/E02/pdf/jr44e1.pdf , http://www.cerrie.org/ and

http://www.comare.org.uk which advises the UK government) and is due to two members, one of whom is Christopher Busby who, it seems, sells radiation protection kits to Fukushima survivors

(see http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/nov/21/christopher-busby-radiation-pills-fukushima and

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/nov/22/christopher-busby-nuclear-green-party ). Busby is very political and even ran for office.

They also cited that the self-styled European Committee on Radiation Risk (ECRR) which is an informal committee formed in 1997 following a meeting by the European Green Party which claimed that the risk from radioactive internal emitters are at least 100 to 200 times more hazardous than currently believed.

Quote: Nick Tsurikov "The point that I would like to make is to illustrate clearly that ECRR "100-200 times" factors cannot possibly be correct - have a look:

The 'official' risk of getting cancer from radiation exposure is 1 in 20,000 per 1 milliSievert of dose. So, if the hazard is 'understated' by, say, 200 times - it becomes 1 in 100, per 1 mSv of dose.

Thousands of people in Malaysian amang industry and in heavy mineral sands industry world wide have been exposed to about 5 mSv every year for (let's say, on average) 6 years of working life, so their cumulative dose was 30 mSv.

Which means that if ECRR is correct - every third worker should be dead from cancer by now...

And what about those who were exposed to about 20 mSv for five years or more (in any industry, uranium included) - in accordance with the ECRR coefficients - the chance is 1 in 1, so they are all dead from cancer by now...

I do not see any cancer epidemic happening... What about all the tin miners in Malaysia in 1950's-1970's: they all should've died within several years after starting their work (as their coefficient would be close to 5 to 1...) Just some points for general consideration..."

Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London)
*

http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/17/lynas-negligible-radiation-but-only-toxic-chemical-waste/#more-5242


http://kickdefella.net/2012/04/16/rare-earth-a-richer-malaysia-and-a-greener-world/#comment-76493

hwlooi said...

Quote:The Malaysian Medical Association (MMA) has warned that the Lynas rare earth processing plant will increase the risk of malignant cancers for those living in the vicinity. Unquote

When we say "MMA says" what we really mean is that ONLY 1 DOCTOR SAYS i.e. THE PRESIDENT OF THE MMA AND NOT ALL THE DOCTORS OR EVEN THE MAJORITY OF THE DOCTORS IN THE MMA because when the president of the MMA says something he did not take a vote of all the doctors or even some of the doctors in the association!

So this is the opinion of just the President of the MMA i.e. just 1 person and not that of ALL the doctors in the association. We have to make this very clear. HE OR SHE DEFINITELY DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME !

We also have to realize that whenever the head or the president of any group of people says something, there will be people with ulterior motives who, if the statement suits and reinforces their own evil motives, will seize the opportunity to sensationalize the statement.

In the worst case scenario, the radiation risk in the surrounding area will increase by only 0.002 mSv and since the risk of developing cancer is 1 per 20,000 per mSv, the increased risk is 1 in 10,000,000 for people in the Kuantan area.

This chance is as good as striking the FOUR DIGIT LOTTERY 1 THOUSAND TIMES! Let me know if you know of someone who had struck the 4 digit lottery 1,000 times!

But again, consider Ng Ai Soo's comment:

" And what about other pollution and/or radiation sources in the environment before Lynas even starts. For example, a 1,000MW coal plant after just 1 year of operation produces 6,000,000 tons of CO2, 44,000 tons of SO2, 22,000 tons of NO2, 320,000 tons of ash containing 400 tons of heavy metals (arsenic, mercury, cadmium, lead etc.)

And, here’s the kicker, including 5 tons or Uranium and 12 tons of Thorium from which the radon gas of both decay chains are out the chimney and into our air... and we are building TWO of these now to add to those we already have on the peninsula. "

"In fact, the fly ash emitted by a power plant—a by-product from burning coal for electricity—carries into the surrounding environment 100 times more radiation than a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of energy." (Quote from Scientific American)

The risk of getting cancer from just 1 of the many coal fired plants in Malaysia is far, far higher than that of the Lynas plant. Pollution from all our other plants and factories are just as bad.

Why this discrimination against Lynas? Why not have a massive demonstration to call for these power plants and all our factories to be closed down and send all the waste products BACK TO AUSTRALIA, GERMANY, JAPAN, TAIWAN, ENGLAND AND THE USA.

I AN VERY SURE THAT NO SANE INVESTOR WILL COME TO MALAYSIA and we can go back to the good old times of being a 4th word country and SEND OUR DAUGHTERS AND GRAND-DAUGHTERS TO KAMPUCHEA AND MYAMMAR TO WORK AS MAIDS AND DOMESTIC SERVANTS!

Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah.

hwlooi said...

What is the "safe" level of radiation?


Public dose limits for exposure from uranium mining or nuclear plants are usually set at 1 mSv per year above background.

The figures below are given by the National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurement (NCRP) and its international counterpart, the International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP). Both of these organizations offer recommendations for the maximum permissible dose (MPD) of radiation.

General Public annual MPD by both NCRP and ICRP is 1 mSv.

For Radiation Workers, the annual MPD is 50 mSv (NCRP) and 20 mSv (ICRP), with a cumulative MPD of 10 mSv x Age.

MPD during pregnancy is 5 mSv (NCRP) and 2 mSv (ICRP).

This is over and above background exposure, and excludes medical exposure.

However, experts including Professor Wade Allison of Oxford University argue that the dose limit can safely be raised to 100 millisieverts, based on current health statistics.

Compare this with the dose of 0.002 millisieverts/year of exposure for people living within 1 km of the Lynas plant in the worst case scenario (estimated by Lynas).

This level of 0.002 mSv/yr is actually grossly overestimated because the low energy gamma rays from the Thorium-232 decay chain is able to travel less than 300 metres in air.

Note, the average energy of most abundant emission is only 0.059 MeV, though the gamma ray from Thallium-208 decay to stable Lead-208 has a higher energy of 2.62 MeV.

The radon-220 has a very short half life of only 55 seconds and as such cannot travel far and do not accumulate in confined spaces like the radon-222 from the Uranium decay series.

So the actual radiation dose at a distance greater than 300 metres from the plant is approaching 0 mSv/year !

Comparative Dosages in Biological Effect in mSv.

Dose from natural radiation in the human body: 0.40 mSv per year

Sleeping next to someone for 8 hours 0.02 mSv/yr (10x Lynas worst case)

Sleeping in wooden house = 0.20 mSv/yr (100x Lynas worst case)

Smoking a pack of cigarettes daily 0.20 mSv/yr (100x Lynas worst case)

Slag brick and granite house = up to 2.0 mSv/yr (1,000x Lynas worst case)

Chest X-ray = 0.10 mSv

Medical or dental X-ray 0.39 mSv

CT Scan (Chest) = 10 mSv

CT Fluoroscopy of abdomen and pelvis 6 to 90 mSv (median=31 mSv)

Average individual background radiation dose: 2 mSv per year (1.5 mSv per

year for Australians and 3.0 mSv per year for Americans)

Dose from atmospheric sources (mostly radon): 2 mSv per year

Total average radiation dose for Americans: 6.2 mSv per year

Current average dose limit for nuclear workers: 20 mSv per year

Dose from background radiation in parts of Iran, India and Europe: 50 mSv per year

(Source: UNSCEAR and EPA and IAEA)

All the potassium that we eat everyday in our food contains potassium-40 and the normal dietary potassium would give a total of about 80 Bq per day.
Compare this with the Lynas waste which produces only 6 Bq/gm

Even your wife or husband is radioactive, with a radioactivity of 4,000 Bq from Potassium-40 and another 3,000 Bq from Carbon-14 giving a total of about 7,000 Bq!

Sleeping next to someone (i.e. your wife or husband) for 8 hours a day will lead to an exposure of 0.02 mSv/year (Source: UNSCEAR and EPA).

Since all living cells contain potassium, all types of meat, flesh, fruits, nuts and vegetables are radioactive because of the potassium-40 content.

The so-called sodium free salt recommended by health experts to combat high blood pressure is nothing more than just highly radioactive potassium salt! Even a lot of doctors, specialists and professors do not know this!

The message here is that more radioactive substances are freely sold in the shops and used as a fertilizer or eaten by us than you would otherwise thought.

Dr Looi